Legendary cyber-security expert Professor Gene Spafford joins us to try to define what cyber-security even is! "Spaf" as he's known, is a faculty member at Purdue University and now Honorary Professor at the University of Nottingham. Dr Spafford is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, the Association for the Advancement of Science, the ACM, the IEEE, and the (ISC)2; a Distinguished Fellow of the ISSA; and a member of the Cyber Security Hall of Fame, the only person to ever hold all these distinctions.