In his brave new book, The Four Pivots: Reimagining Justice, Reimagining Ourselves, Shawn Ginwright asks a simple but profound question, “Can we heal the world without healing ourselves?” I’ve always believed the answer is no, but I’ve never seen anyone propose a more daring solution than what’s in this book and conversation. There is so much wisdom in these four pivots. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices